NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/misc-part1/3741

Internet Message Format | 1996-08-05 | 11.7 KB

Path: news.mcs.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Eric Szulczewski)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: The March Amiga?
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 16:12:15 CST
Organization: Principle of Obscurity BBS
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: obscurity.pd.mcs.net


In a message dated 01-27-96 19-00 Gary Alan Peake writes:

(Lotsa snips, including Gary's heartfelt AT polemic...)

GP> Part of the problem is the number of people who have never taken Economics
GP> 101!

I have.  Care to see my transcripts?

GP> You NEVER sell a product for less than the market will bring unless
GP> you are stupid or too filthy rich to be in business in the first place.
GP> The name of the game is 'maximize profits' which Escom has done very well
GP> at in the past. None of us know what the 'real' cost is to Amiga
GP> Technologies for the products they are delivering. BUT, it isn't cheaper
GP> for them than it was for C= when they were going bankrupt and already had
GP> supplies handy for production.

This is even more basic than Econ 101, Gary.  But another basic lesson
is that of market desire and how it can be manufactured.  Escom/AT
assumed that a larger market was there than what really was.  They
could have made that market larger; they chose not to.  A sin of
omission which, hopefully, won't be committed again.

GP> Amiga Technologies would also be ignorant to say today 'just wait a few
GP> months and the price will drop'. We all know what would happen.

No company will admit that.  We consumers just assume it, because we've
seen it happen so many times before, especially with technology-related
items.  It's another nasty Catch-22.

GP> It's time for us to 'get real' and take each step for what it is. We need
GP> to quit looking for some conspiracy afloat in the Amiga Technologies camp
GP> to 'rape and pillage us'.

When has anything like that ever been said?  I've floated some rather
unlikely doomsday scenarios (which I've admitted when I posted them
were unlikely, but they needed to be said), but I've never said
anything like "rape and pillage".  That's a little strong, and even I
don't believe they're out to screw us.

GP> We need to quit calling the computer 'crap' and
GP> start making positive and constructive suggestions.

I only said that the 600 and 1200 were crap.  And I have made "positive
and constructive suggestions" in regard to the 1200, namely abandon the
true low-end system and go for a low-to-mid-end that wasn't in an
all-in-one so that a user would be encouraged to upgrade in an easier
manner.  I never heard from Kittel about that.

GP> If I impugned your work or Eric's ... either of you would be
GP> fighting mad!!

Not if that criticism was logical, intelligently-expressed, pointed out
flaws that I might not have caught due to my closeness to the situation,
and, most importantly, well-meant.  Which is what I've been doing, in
my opinion.

GP> BUT, it's ok to tell Dr Kittle and Gilles Bourdin that 'we' think
GP> they are out to rob us, that what they are pushing is 'crap', and
GP> that 'we' could care less about trying to help get the Amiga back
GP> into the limelight it once held.

You've made three specific instances where you feel that we
non-AT-boosters have criticized AT.  Let's go through each of those:

1) "...they are out to rob us...":  What Paul said was that the 1200 is
too expensive for the purpose for which it was brought out.  The price
was too high to be considered a low-end system.  He was not charging AT
with highway robbery.  And what exactly are your feelings about the price
on the 4000T?  I think that both you and I have said that it's too
high.  Neither of us has charged AT with extortion because we both know
the laws of consumer electronic economics.

2) "...what they are pushing is 'crap'...":  Mea culpa.  The first time
I specifically referred to the 1200 as crap was when George said,
"You're crapping on the 1200".  I thought I'd be, literarily speaking,
cute about what he said.  That didn't work, and may have been too
strong about my own feelings about the 1200.  Just to clarify, I feel
that the 1200 is too weak, too technologically outmoded, too difficult
to beef up, and not as good a starter system as some here say it is.

3) "...we could care less about trying to help get the Amiga back into
the limelight it once held.":  Gary, if we cared less, why would we
bitch so much?  I don't think you've ever been in the military.  It's
an old cliche, but a true one, that the real time to worry about a
military unit is when they're NOT complaining.  That means they've
given up.  Consider Gilles and Kittel the drivers of the AT Bus, and
us as the passengers.  You're up there reading the map and saying,
"This is a nice scenic route, and you're driving quite well."  Paul,
Byron, and myself are in the back going "Why don't you take this
particular shortcut?  It'll get us there faster."  Same destination,
different approaches.  Let's not bitch with each other so much about
the way we travel, because the wheel isn't in our hands.  But we can
make damn sure we annoy the drivers...

GP> You can call me an 'apologist', a 'yes-man', or anything else that you'd
GP> like. I always view the source of expletives and consider that using them
GP> somehow makes some people feel bigger. For a positive view of what I'm
GP> talking about, look at Eric's replies to George!!

Yes, the "penis substitute" remark may have been a bit out of line, but
sometimes it takes a lot to get through to people.  I do adjust my
approaches, and my poor fevered brow decided this would be the best
approach on George.  Notice that my last response to him was in the
same mode as this one.

GP> >And Interviews in Amiga mags don`t exactly get read by newbies
GP> >do they?

GP> Yes, they do! Do YOU read any PC mags? Nuff said!!

No, I don't read PC magazines, because they're irrelevant to my
computing experience, which is that of an Amiga.

GP> I will ALWAYS agree with constructive, positive feedback that would help
GP> bring the Amiga back! I will NEVER let the negatives go without a response
GP> though!

Positive feedback = encouragement.  Uh, Gary, when you were
potty-training your son, did you applaud him each time he messed his
pants?

GP> >At the mment, AT seems to be letting IBM cash in on the Surfer pack.

GP> Now maybe some will see why the US lawyer type got to keep his job?
GP> Remember the sig "egoff.ibm.net"?

Just because Ed Goof was on ibm.net doesn't mean that he was the one
who necessarily brokered this.  IBM happens to have a good Net service
(a friend of mine with OS/2 uses it and finds it very good indeed).  I
wouldn't mind using it if I already didn't order a provider of my own
(which is why my address is about to change).

GP> >3) AT made it clear that any profits from AT Internet went straight into
GP> R&D.

GP> And now, folks, we want to control the profits that Amiga Technologies
GP> makes too?   :)

We just want a sign from them that they're going to see this through.

GP> PC's are being sold just above cost because of the strong competition and
GP> the flooded market conditions. This is NOT yet the case for the Amiga!

You've told me to get off the blinders, so I feel that you won't be too
offended if I asked you to do the same for the moment.  You're treating
the Amiga and the PC as two different animals.  We, of course, know
this to be true.  The problem is that the public at large doesn't.  PCs
will be competition for Amigas in the larger marketplace since they're
both "computers".  That cost cutting and market flooding is what drove
Apple out of business/into the hands of Sun (depending on what you're
reading this hour about that situation), and made Bill Gates rich.

GP> At the time this was being bandied about, Amiga Technologies was
GP> interested in getting machines produced. There was no time for any R&D.
GP> There was no time for 'fixes'. Just get it back into production!!!

That may have created a "too little, too late" problem in and of
itself.  Yes, under standard business practices, this was the only
thing that Escom could do, but maybe they should have diverted from
those practices a little and experimented with the laws of consumer
demand.  I'm not finding fault, just acting with hindsight.

GP> How many times will we go thru this? First, everyone here is appalled that
GP> Amiga Technologies will NOT sell Amiga's thru Escom stores. Then, we are
GP> appalled that the Escom people don't know anything about the Amiga, yet
GP> may be selling them. You and Eric can't have it BOTH ways!!!

You keep asking us to justify our conclusions.  However, you're
finessing your own issues in mock indignation at us.  What would your
solution have been, Gary?  Where would you have sold Amigas in Europe?
You keep asking us to justify and offer practical alternatives while
criticizing, but you're not doing so yourself.

This is an example when we felt that Escom/AT WOULD do the right thing,
the right thing being that if Escom sold the products of one of its
subsidiaries in the stores of another, that they would guarantee that those
particular products would be given every benefit to sell in good
quantities.  In this case, personnel trained in Amiga use, good store
displays, the products as part of both in-store and general media ads,
etc.  Escom provided none of this.  This is not a conspiracy by Escom
to torpedo AT.  It's just not utilizing the synergism of your own
business.  Another mistake that I hope they don't make again.

GP> >No need to get short with your incredulous replies Gary!

GP> Didn't want to wear you out like it appears I did with Eric!  :)

Nope, didn't get worn out, just was in bed for four days.

GP> >Youbetcha. In March, when the Surfer pack comes out, we`ll make our mind
GP> >up. If the Surfer pack is indeed 1200DM, or approx. 600 UK pounds, then
GP> >IMHO, it`s just too much. They haven`t moved the price of the A1200,
GP> >they`ve just added the cost of the Surfer pack on top of an A1200.
GP> >i.e they`ve just fitted the Surfer in with the existing Magic Pack.
GP> >That`s a bad idea when you consider that a cheap 486/66/100/P60 setup
GP> >with modem etc is a better bet for surfing than a relatively
GP> >underpowered A1200 with a high price tag.

GP> Then YOU need to get one!!! I'll fumble along with whatever Amiga
GP> Technologies gives us. I'd certainly hate to 'cramp your style' any.  :)

That's an awfully snide remark given to a well-expressed valid
criticism, Gary.  You've got to admit that $800 is a little expensive
for a 1200, no matter what software it comes with.  It's just a matter
of plain consumer economics, especially in NA, where the power cult is
king.

GP> >>>>If you are looking for a BIG PUSH into North America beginning
GP> >>>>tomorrow, don't hold your breath. Amiga Technologies has said more
GP> >>>>than once that it ain't gonna happen that way. The PPC is their inroad
GP> >>>>into the North American market. THAT competes!!

GP> >>>Not without marketing and a competitive price it doesn`t.

GP> >>Why can't we wait till it gets here before we start bitchin'?

GP> >Um, it`s already here in the UK, and IMHO, it`s a disaster.

GP> Wow!!! You guys have the PPC's in the UK??   :)

No, but what they do have is more important, and that's what Paul's
talking about:  AT's marketing strategy for the Amiga.

Speaking of long-term preparation, Gary, I was wondering:  if the PPC
comes out here without a marketing push and without a mass marketer in
place before release, will you criticize then?

GP> Sorry ... I'm into the Beatles, The Who, The Eagles ... I don't play many
GP> games on my Amiga.

How can we bitch at each other so much when our musical tastes and
computing tastes are so much alike?  Opposites attract; likes repel?

Eric Szulczewski
Address Currently Under Construction


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